Trou vers 5000 RPM à l'accélération

DamZs,
oui en effet cela semble pareil.
C'est cool de partager les infos. On se tient au jus,
Bonne chance,
Domxs

Domxs je roule tout les jours au sp98, et toujours le probleme. Par contre avec un gicleur plus petit ( jusqu'a 140) je n'avais pas ce trou. Dans tout les cas je pense la laisser a mon mecano la semaine prochaine car j'en ai marre... Je te tiendrais au courant sans problemes

Salut,

Après vérification sur le manuel Haynes, mon carbu serait monté avec des gicleurs d'air de 85. Après vérification, j'ai des 130 sur les miens.
Du coup j'ai fait une bricole pour descendre à 85 (en remplissant à l'étain puis percage à 0.85 mm), essai donc avec des 132.5 essence, 85 air.
Le "trou" à 5000 a presque disparu, la moto roule beaucoup mieux, sauf le ralenti et la décélération (la coupure en décélération n'est pas franche).
Je vais quand même vérifier avec Jerry (heiden tuning) la config aiguille-tube d'émulsion-gicleur air-gicleur essence, car un doute persiste.
Je vous tiens au jus.

Domxs

Bonjour,

Jerry (Heiden tuning) me confirme que la config originale est avec des gicleurs d'air de 130.
J'ai démonté les bougies pour vérifier ce que ca donnait avec les 85, c'est tout noir donc ca confirme ce que Jerry a dit. J'ai les ai remis à 130.
En conclusion, je n'ai toujours rien solutionné.
Du coup, j'ai commandé des tubes d'émulsion et aiguille, sans grande conviction mais pour être sûr d'avoir une bonne référence.
Avant de les changer, je vais essayer le réglage d'aiguille pour appauvrir au max, car je suis presque sûr que le trou est un enrichissement car quand ca se produit, si je réduit les gaz, elle a tendance à continuer d'accélérer.
A+,
Domxs

Exactement pareil que to, quand je relache l'accelerateur legerement elle prend ses tours puis apres je peux mettre gaz en grand jusqu'a la zone rouge!
Mon mecano m'a dit " tu est maniac, ta moto roule tres bien, c'est un moteur qui a 40 ans ip ne faut pas trop lui en demander"
En bref je crois qu'il a pas voulu s'enmerder 😅

domxs a écrit:

Bonjour,

Jerry (Heiden tuning) me confirme que la config originale est avec des gicleurs d'air de 130.
J'ai démonté les bougies pour vérifier ce que ca donnait avec les 85, c'est tout noir donc ca confirme ce que Jerry a dit. J'ai les ai remis à 130.
En conclusion, je n'ai toujours rien solutionné.
Du coup, j'ai commandé des tubes d'émulsion et aiguille, sans grande conviction mais pour être sûr d'avoir une bonne référence.
Avant de les changer, je vais essayer le réglage d'aiguille pour appauvrir au max, car je suis presque sûr que le trou est un enrichissement car quand ca se produit, si je réduit les gaz, elle a tendance à continuer d'accélérer.
A+,
Domxs

un trou,normalement=trop pauvre, trop riche=moteur qui se gave et veux pas monter quand tu fait un test bougie,rouler normal moteur bien chaud,point mort,couper contact aussitot,sortir chiffon et clef a bougie et regarder bougies,mais pas de moteur au ralenti avant

Bonjour,
je reviens sur mon topic du "trou à l'accélération".
En bref, j'ai pris le taureau par les cornes et me suis documenté. J'ai essayé de varier la config des trous du tube d'émulsion mais sans résultats.
J'ai alors baissé l'aiguille (position la plus basse) pour appauvrir les moyens régime et la, ca marche très bien. J'ai actuellement gardé du 132 gicleur principal et 45 gicleur de ralenti. On verra par la suite, j'ai d'abord envie de rouler tranquille.

Je me suis aidé d'un guide que j'ai trouvé sur internet qui concerne le réglage des carbus à membrane dont voici un receuil. Il est en anglais, si l'un d'entre vous en a besoin je veux bien le traduire en francais. Pour ceux qui connaissent, ils trouveront vite que le langauge de ce bonhomme est juste !

Merci encore à tous ceux qui par leur commentaire m'ont aidé, spécialement DamZs qui avait vu juste !
Salutations,
Domxs

voici le document:

CV Carb Tuning
High RPM engines
(OR "TUNE LIKE A STAR IN 4 EASY STEPS!)


________________________________________
Follow steps in order....First, dial in:

• 1. Top end (full throttle / 7.5k to redline -
Best Main Jet must be selected before starting step 2 (needle height)!
 Select Best Main Jet
o To get the best, most even top end power (full throttle/after 7500 rpm), select the main jet that produces the hardest pull at high rpm.
 If the bike pulls harder at high rpm when cold and less hard when fully warmed up, the main jet is too large. Install a smaller main jet and retest until you find the main jet that pulls the hardest at high rpm when fully warmed up. This must be done first - before moving on to the other tuning ranges.
 If the bike doesn't pull well at high rpm when cold and gets only slightly better when fully warmed up, the main jet is too small.
 In order to properly tune the midrange and low rpm carburetion, THE MAIN JET MUST FIRST BE PROPERLY SELECTED after 10 to 15 minutes of hard use!
 Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are changing main jets - you still need to be using the main jets that produce the best power at high rpm. You will deal with the low-end / cruise later - after step 2.

• 2. Midrange (full throttle /5k-7k)
Step 1 (Best Main Jet) must be selected before starting step 2!
 Select best needle clip position
o To get the best power at full throttle / 5k-7k rpm, adjust the needle height, after you have already selected the best main jet.
 If the engine pulls better or is smoother at full throttle/5k-7k in a full throttle roll-on starting at <3k when cool but soft and/or rough when at full operating temperature, it is too rich in the midrange and the needle should be lowered.
 If the engine pulls better when fully warmed up but still not great between 5k-7k, try raising the needle to richen 5k-7k.
 If the engine pulls equally well between 5k-7k when cooler as compared to fully warmed up, the needle height is probably properly set.
 Do not pay too much attention to the low-end richness when you are changing needle clip positions - you still need to be using the clip position that produces the best full throttle / 5k-7k power in conjunction with the main jets (Step 1) that produce the best power at high rpm. You will deal with the low-end / cruise next.

• 3. Low end (full throttle / 2k-3k)
Step 1 (Best Main Jet) and Step 2 (needle height) must be selected before starting step 3!
 Float height (AKA fuel level & how to..)
o To get best low-end power, set float height (fuel level) so that the engine will accept full throttle, without missing or stumbling,  in 2nd gear from 2.5k to 3k rpm at minimum.
 Float heights, unless otherwise specified in the installation guide, are measured from the "gasket surface" of the carb body to the highest part of the top of the float - with the float tang touching but not compressing the float valve spring.
 If the engine has a "wet" rhythmic, soggy area at full throttle / 3k-4k rpm, that gets worse as the engine heats up, lower the fuel level by resetting the float height 1mm greater (if the original was 13mm - go to 14mm). This will lower the fuel level, making full throttle / 2k-3k rpm leaner.
 If the engine is "dry" and flat between 2k to 3k rpm, raise the fuel level.
 Example: change float height from 15mm to 14mm to richen up that area.
 REMEMBER, since the main jet WILL affect low speed operation, the MAIN JET has to be within 1 or 2 sizes of correct before final float setting.
 Warning: If the engine is left with the fuel level too high,, the engine may foul plugs on the street and will be "soft" and boggy at part throttle operation. Adjust Floats to raise/ lower the Fuel Level.
 Base settings are usually given if a particular application has a history of fuel level criticalness. The Fuel level height in the float bowl affects full throttle/low rpm and, also, richness or leanness at cruise/low rpm.
 Reference: a bike that runs cleanly at small throttle openings when cold, but starts to show signs of richness as it heats up to full operating temperature, will usually be leaned out enough to be correct if the fuel level is LOWERED 1mm. Check out and RESET all: Suzuki (all), Yamaha (all) and Kawasaki (if low speed problems occur). Needless to say, FUEL LEVEL IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!
 If there are low-end richness problems, even after lowering the fuel level much more than 1.5mm from our initial settings, check for needle wear and needle jet (part of the emulsion tube). See Worn Needle and Worn Needle Jet diagram. It is VERY common for the brass needle jets (in the top of the "emulsion tube") in 36mm, 38mm and 40mm Mikuni CV carbs to wear out in as little as 5,000 miles. Check them for "oblong" wear - the needle jet orifice starts out round! Factory Pro produces stock replacement needle jets / emulsion tubes for 36mm and 38mm Mikuni carbs. Click here

• 4. Idle and low rpm cruise
 Fuel Screw setting (AKA mixture screws)
 There is usually a machined brass or aluminum cap over the fuel screws on all but newer Honda. It's about the diameter of a pencil.  Cap removal details. Newer Honda carbs have no caps, but use a special "D" shaped driver, usually supplied in the carb recal kit. We do have them available separately, too. 800 869-0497 to order -
 Set for smoothest idle and 2nd gear, 4k rpm, steady state cruise operation. Set mixture screws at recommended settings, as a starting point. For smoothest idle, 2nd gear 4000 rpm steady state cruise , and 1/8 throttle high rpm operation.  (pj tuning information)
 Pilot fuel mixture screw settings, float level (but, you've "fixed" the fuel level in Step 3 - which you have already done!) AND pilot jet size are the primary sources of mixture delivery during 4000 rpm steady state cruise operation.
 If lean surging is encountered, richen mixture screws (turn out) in 1/2 turn increments. Alternative pilot jets are supplied when normally required.
 Pilot fuel mixture screw settings, float level and pilot jet size also affect high-rpm, 0 to 1/8 throttle maneuvers. Too lean, will cause surging problems when the engine is operated at high rpm at small throttle openings! Opening the mixture screws and/or increasing pilot jet size will usually cure the problem.

 NOTE: A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up.
 If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm drops below the set idle speed, then rises up to the set idle speed, the low speed mixture screws are probably set too rich: try 1/2 turn in, to lean the idle mixture.
 NOTE: A lean problem gets better as the engine heats up.
 If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm "hangs up" before dropping to the set idle speed, and there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1000 rpm, the mixture screws are probably too lean: try 1/2 turn out, to richen mixture. Be sure there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1000 rpm!
• Carb Kit Design is a combination of science, art, intuition and and at times, a fair dose of wizardry. There is no dyno that "tells" one how to assemble or modify the carb to deliver proper power and response.
• Perfect Carb Kit TUNING requires patience and perseverance and "reasonable" feel to feel the changes - of which - most motorcycle riders have a good ability to do.
When a dyno "operator" says he/she has to ride the bike after dyno tuning to do the final tune for cruise smoothness - that's what they are doing. Avoid any dyno operator who says that they don't have to do that!!!
The only dyno that I know of that will duplicate and visually display the engine smoothness is the EC997 dyno (yes, I know, we make it) - that's one reason why, if you can, you'd like to use one for tuning - a smoother engine IS getting the best mixture. Other dynos claim to "tune to an "A/F Ratio" - probably the biggest marketing scheme in the dyno industry at this time - and they never can equal the quality of tune as designed -
These tuning kits have been thoroughly tested to ensure easy, trouble-free, optimized performance.

• Please note: If you have installed the kit and gone through the optional screw settings, clip positions and main jets, and still have a persistent flat spot/problem, we ask you to call us. Unique engine / exhaust / filter / altitude / temperature combinations may require individualized setups. We are here to help. The information gained to your solution will be installed in our computerized reference database. PLEASE CALL!
• We ask that upon completion of installation and tuning, that you call us with specifications of your installation, (pipe brand, filters, advancer, altitude, humidity, temperature and final carb settings) to be entered in our TUNING DATABASE. The database allows us to include the "most used" jet sizes and setup specifications in every kit.


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Authorized links to Factory Pro CV Carb Tuning Instructions:
http://www.sport-touring.net July 20, 2002

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